Comments on: Enterprise-class Software becoming available in the Cloud through RightScale http://blog.rightscale.com/2009/07/01/enterprise-class-software-in-the-cloud-through-rightscale/ Cloud Computing. Delivered. Thu, 11 Mar 2010 11:31:38 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: Tim http://blog.rightscale.com/2009/07/01/enterprise-class-software-in-the-cloud-through-rightscale/#comment-1193 Tim Wed, 05 Aug 2009 12:48:43 +0000 http://blog.rightscale.com/?p=373#comment-1193 Thorsten Leave it at the server, that's much better than for the physical world and plenty for most enterprise app biz cases for cloud migration to be compelling. I don't really understand how you're going to do finer grained metering anyway: if I've got an Oracle DBMS running DBs that are shared between business applications, how do I know which resource request relates to which user of which biz application? This is an interesting approach, but it requires a greenfield deployment to work (ie start from scratch with your business applications), which is a lot of capex to lay out for most enterprises. Depends on where you see your markets, I suppose. Threads don't scale in a parallel world anyway... Thorsten
Leave it at the server, that’s much better than for the physical world and plenty for most enterprise app biz cases for cloud migration to be compelling.

I don’t really understand how you’re going to do finer grained metering anyway: if I’ve got an Oracle DBMS running DBs that are shared between business applications, how do I know which resource request relates to which user of which biz application? This is an interesting approach, but it requires a greenfield deployment to work (ie start from scratch with your business applications), which is a lot of capex to lay out for most enterprises. Depends on where you see your markets, I suppose.

Threads don’t scale in a parallel world anyway…

]]> By: williamlouth http://blog.rightscale.com/2009/07/01/enterprise-class-software-in-the-cloud-through-rightscale/#comment-1156 williamlouth Tue, 14 Jul 2009 07:22:02 +0000 http://blog.rightscale.com/?p=373#comment-1156 "to feed custom metering increments into whatever we do" That would be interesting as our technology does indeed allow cloud platform vendors to publish their meters within the application runtime and for changes in such meters to be correlated with application activity which to be honest would be needed if you was to apply any cost control in the cloud especially if one if offering a cloud service which is metered at the interaction point and has varying workload patterns depending on the context associated with the interaction. Metering (at least the way we have defined it and approach the problem) can encompass much more including application performance monitoring, capacity planning, cost management, user monitoring/profiling, and billing (to some degree). Why would we want to have separate models for each of these domains when all that is different is the meter (or meters) used to manage from a particular perspective. We can have many different meters each offering different levels of abstraction suitable to the domain but all based on the same activity catalog included in the metering model. Server metrics (alone) do not instigate change (in terms of cost and behavior) unless one understand the cause (activity) and effect (resource usage). “to feed custom metering increments into whatever we do”

That would be interesting as our technology does indeed allow cloud platform vendors to publish their meters within the application runtime and for changes in such meters to be correlated with application activity which to be honest would be needed if you was to apply any cost control in the cloud especially if one if offering a cloud service which is metered at the interaction point and has varying workload patterns depending on the context associated with the interaction.

Metering (at least the way we have defined it and approach the problem) can encompass much more including application performance monitoring, capacity planning, cost management, user monitoring/profiling, and billing (to some degree). Why would we want to have separate models for each of these domains when all that is different is the meter (or meters) used to manage from a particular perspective.

We can have many different meters each offering different levels of abstraction suitable to the domain but all based on the same activity catalog included in the metering model.

Server metrics (alone) do not instigate change (in terms of cost and behavior) unless one understand the cause (activity) and effect (resource usage).

]]> By: Thorsten http://blog.rightscale.com/2009/07/01/enterprise-class-software-in-the-cloud-through-rightscale/#comment-1155 Thorsten Tue, 14 Jul 2009 05:20:27 +0000 http://blog.rightscale.com/?p=373#comment-1155 William, thanks for the feedback, always appreciated. We have to start somewhere and there is a lot of interest in metering that is essentially at the granularity of servers (plus or minus ancillary resources used by each server). You are talking about finer granularity where, for example, a multi-tenant system could associate detailed costs with each tenant. I guess we can have a religious debate over the point of diminishing returns in such schemes, but in the end I don't think this is an area where we'd be adding a lot of value. Your product is much more versatile in that area, for example. What we do plan to offer, however, is a way to feed custom metering increments into whatever we do. But one step at a time... William, thanks for the feedback, always appreciated. We have to start somewhere and there is a lot of interest in metering that is essentially at the granularity of servers (plus or minus ancillary resources used by each server). You are talking about finer granularity where, for example, a multi-tenant system could associate detailed costs with each tenant. I guess we can have a religious debate over the point of diminishing returns in such schemes, but in the end I don’t think this is an area where we’d be adding a lot of value. Your product is much more versatile in that area, for example. What we do plan to offer, however, is a way to feed custom metering increments into whatever we do. But one step at a time…

]]> By: williamlouth http://blog.rightscale.com/2009/07/01/enterprise-class-software-in-the-cloud-through-rightscale/#comment-1154 williamlouth Mon, 13 Jul 2009 18:56:16 +0000 http://blog.rightscale.com/?p=373#comment-1154 Glad to see you have changed your previous opinion of metering in the cloud since we last met at the CloudCamp WHD conference. But I am curious at what level can you honestly offer useful metering information if you are still largely devoid of software execution context with the processes themselves. It would be great if instead you offered RightScales metering data available within the process itself (bindings to different languages) and per thread to enable fine grain activity analysis which can be correlated to multiple cost centers some operational others more business like (chargebacks to depts, users, services, components, workflows). A bit like this example: http://williamlouth.wordpress.com/2009/01/27/abc-for-cloud-computing/ But if not that then at least we could have this today. Is this possible? http://williamlouth.wordpress.com/2009/04/18/cloud-modeling-with-activity-based-costing/ Glad to see you have changed your previous opinion of metering in the cloud since we last met at the CloudCamp WHD conference.

But I am curious at what level can you honestly offer useful metering information if you are still largely devoid of software execution context with the processes themselves. It would be great if instead you offered RightScales metering data available within the process itself (bindings to different languages) and per thread to enable fine grain activity analysis which can be correlated to multiple cost centers some operational others more business like (chargebacks to depts, users, services, components, workflows).

A bit like this example:
http://williamlouth.wordpress.com/2009/01/27/abc-for-cloud-computing/

But if not that then at least we could have this today. Is this possible?
http://williamlouth.wordpress.com/2009/04/18/cloud-modeling-with-activity-based-costing/

]]> By: Alex Williams http://blog.rightscale.com/2009/07/01/enterprise-class-software-in-the-cloud-through-rightscale/#comment-1126 Alex Williams Thu, 02 Jul 2009 06:33:19 +0000 http://blog.rightscale.com/?p=373#comment-1126 We took a look at your webinar and wrote a bit about your services over on our blog. A discussion is starting that would benefit from your perspectives. I had the chance to meet a few of your team members at CloudCamp Portland. Dean Dierickx served as a knowledgeable source about use cases for various deployment models. A number of dicussions we'd like to follow up on that you write about in this post. In particular, the issues around metering. We took a look at your webinar and wrote a bit about your services over on our blog. A discussion is starting that would benefit from your perspectives. I had the chance to meet a few of your team members at CloudCamp Portland. Dean Dierickx served as a knowledgeable source about use cases for various deployment models. A number of dicussions we’d like to follow up on that you write about in this post. In particular, the issues around metering.

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